more than $100,000. >> that's a good one. >> and one from a conflicted sports fan. one of these saints is not like the >> i love their mom. she's so outspoken. >> it depends on the end of outspokenness you are on. she did make some nuchlz. >> they asked her about jeb running for president. mrs. bush, would you like your son jeb to run? >> he's by far the most qualified man, but, no, i don't. i think it's a great country. there are a lot of great families. it's not just four families or whatever. there are other people out there

that are very qualified. we've had enough bushes. >> were you surprised by what she said? >> i was surprised she even answered the question. >> really? >> this was woman when i was getting recalled to run against governor anne richards in texas. a long pause, she says, you can't win. >> keeping you from getting a big head. >> anyways, jeb should run for president, if he wants to, he'd be a good president. >> and good morning, it is wednesday, november 20th. is it only wednesday, really? >> only wednesday. >> gracious. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set is msnbc contributor mark barnacle. you look nice. >> thank you. >> do you have running shoes on? >> i do. >> ah, all right. all right. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic specialist, jim ratner.

>> do i look nice? >> always. >> and from the huffington post sam stein. >> i know i look nice. >> you look recalled for school. >> oh. >> that didn't take long, did it? >> maybe five seconds. >> do you have your underroos ready? it looks better, but i'm worried. somebody colored it. >> no, no, there is no just for men here. >> are you sure? >> it's getting a little ginger, isn't it? bill geist hair. >> i can't wait until it's gone. >> ten days. >> i'm not going to look at you for ten days. all right. >> you are still going to look at him, viewers. >> i'm hoping, would you? >> wow sam, it's going to be a long morning for you and me, bud. >> i didn't get a lot of sleep, sorry, i'm punchy. we have a lot of stories to cover today, including new

warnings about airline safety, why a report says some pilots are far too dependent on computers and lack the skills and only in to control planes on their own. we'll talk about that coming up. plus, a well-known political leader in virginia is brutally stabbed in what police say is an apparent murder-suicide, his own son is the apparent attacker. we'll have that story. also, exchanging blame with a department store over the so-called shop and frisk policy. that critics say is based on race. barney's say the police acted on their own. but the cops have a different version of events. also, a florida congressman is seeking treatment after police say he was busted with cocaine. it was a sort of a sting operation. what the republican representative had to say about his arrest. it's kind of a sad story. we'll start, though, with

afghanist afghanistan. the draw down of troops was supposed to begin, but it shows we will maintain that post for years to come. according to text, american troops could stay until 2024 while the u.s. supports hundreds of thousands of afghan security forces. here's nbc's richard engel with more on what the agreement could entail. >> reporter: u.s. troops training afghan forces and hunting al qaeda. movement off base would be severely restricted. afghan officials want 10 to 15,000 troops to stay for a decade at least. u.s. military officials talk of 7 to 8,000. u.s. troops here now mostly do training. the u.s. air force in kabul with afghan airmen. >> i think they're on their feet, a little nervous taking their first steps without us. i think they can do it.

>> reporter: most don't want americans to leave. >> we need strong support from international communities, especially from u.s. >> reporter: why not just leave? the afghan government would likely collapse, afghan could again become a haven for terrorists. after so many years, would a force of 7,000 make a difference? iraq stands as a warning. there was no agreement there when the u.s. left and the civil war has come back with a vengeance. an afghan agreement might prevent a prepete of that, not e -- a repeat of that. not changing the war, just changing it. >> they want president obama to admit to military mistakes only then would hamid karzai drop his staunch to raids on afghan vigils an homes. sam stein, if the afghan government would collapse, bake amy, there is no leaving. 2024 isn't even realistic.

>> yeah, this is a real bind, obviously, for the administration. it's one talked about on the show ad nauseum almost by is do you pull out entirely in how much is too long? how many forces is too little forces. 7,000 strikes me as inefficient if there were to be a collapse and the country would be overrun. at the same time, there is very little to no political extension for even this. so the administration is trying to thread a needle here figuring out what can be sufficient to stop re-emerging threats and a lengthy deployment. >> doing the math on these, october of 2001, we went into afghanistan. now, we're looking at 2024. a quarter of a century almost. you talk about vietnam the length of that war. a helicopter leaves in 1975. that's ten years. the length of the war and something for put president to think about. there is no such thing as an

easy in and out war. >> we are told it takes on the american public most specifically the american military families of the american military would continue deployments to afghanistan. sam mentioned the fact that it would have on the united states the maintenance of troops in there. the effect it would have on afghans. if we withdraw, that government is go going to quo lapse in a year or two. it 2k7ds on what residual forces, what is their mission. if it's 7 to 8,000, that's not enough forces for forced protection, to protect the troops that are there on the ground for the next ten years. so is karzai going to allow the united states soldier who os ten os tense ibly allow them to do force protection measures that

are critical. in other words, go out at night and kill bad guys? >> you know, there is also a broader issue. nobody in the whole history of afghanistan the last 150 years of western occupation have succeeded in actually burn u turning it into a stable place. you can't wish for democracy more than the people wish for it, themselves. >> all right. we will get to obama care now. later today, the president will meet with state insurance commissioners to address their concerns over the administration's health care rollout. several groups say the white house proposal which would allow insurers continue selling older plans that do not meet the men mum requirements of the health care law would be impractical and difficult to implement. meanwhile, officials say up to 40% of healthcare.gov is still being developed. but the site can now handle up to 25,000 users at any given time and even though president obama said he quote did not have enough awareness on the issue surrounding the website, white

house officials say he was briefed on the possible online failures earlier this year. jed, the president spoke about the ongoing partisan fight over the affordable care act. >> we are going to have to, a, fix the website so everybody feels confident about that. we're going to have to obviously remark and rebrand and that will be challenging in this political environment. i think that we probably underestimated the complexities of building out a website that needed to work the way it should. what was already going to be hard was operating within a very difficult political environment and we should have anticipated that that would create a rockier rollout than if democrats or republicans were both invested in success. one of the problems we've had is one side of capitol hill is invested in failure. >> this headline in today's new

york times, perks ease way and health plans for law makers. the "time's" reports it gives added benefits, including in-person support sessions, special blue cross blue shield websites only for members of congress and gold plans of their constituents at home don't have access to. lawmakers are forced to enroll for health care coverage through the new insurance exchanges as part of the affordable care act. you know, that kind of hurts right now. >> a great story, by the way. >> the old double standard. >> the double standard. it's red meat, really. >> it is. we talked about the politics of this steve comes with numbers. he comes with hard data. he's got the charts. looking first at who is going to pay more under the affordable care act. >> just because there is so much to talk about this to show what is what and who will be affected. let's look first as willie said, who will pay more, who will not

pay more. this chart breaks down all americans into five gruchoups. these 80% are people who either get their health insurance from their employers, as probably most of us here do or they're on medicare or medicaid. for them, for the most part, life goes on. have you the 15% uninsured. they will be affected in a positive way by affordable care. we'll come to them later him then you come down to this roughly 5%. everything we have been talking about in terms of people getting their policies cancelled or whatever fall into this 5% budge. we're talking roughly 16 million people half of them will, should be able to get a similar plan without paying more for it. another quarter of that total will get subsidies. their incomes are low enough to qualify for some of the obama care subsidies. so the people that really will get hurt are 1.3% of americans

who won't get subsidies, will have their plans cancelled. 1.3% does not sound like a lot. when do you the math as many as 4 million people. that's why you are hearing so much about it. there are millions of people affected. remember, it's only 1.3% of the population. >> 4 million people who will remain uninsured? >> not necessarily uninsured. they are people with the bare bones plans now. they are people who are young and healthy, but the new plans may cost them a little bit more. i'm not trying to minimize this, they will be able to get insurance, they will probably pay more. they will pay more. >> what is your estimate of the 4 million? would it be, you think, a preupon drans? a majority who would be young an healthy who think i will never get sick at 28, i will not get insurance in. >> it will probably be the young and healthy. you and i, we might pay less when we go into the new

affordable care act. yes, it's the young and healthy likely to pay more. the whole idea is if they don't pay more they have to pay this mandate, penalty, fine, tax, whatever you want to call it. hopefully, we will get them into it. >> in addition to the young an healthy, it's the people above 400% of the poverty level. that's where the line stops for subsidy for health care. if you are at 401 for instance you do not get a tax subsidy to purchase health care. >> that can be financially damaging to you. there is sort of a marriage penalty in there, if you combine incomes and it's over 4%, you get no subsidies. it's that quick cutoff hurting administration. these people are middle class or tend to be lower middle class. now without financial help, they're forced to boy more expensive plans. that's the problem the administration faces. >> let's look at individual plans. it turns out, everyone talks about being grandfathered with

the idea that they're going to stay in that plan for a long time. in fact, most people will go into the individual marketplace don't stay there very long at least with their original plan. often people are between jobs or changes jobs or they will take this plan a little while and get another plan, when you look at this chart, you see half of the people in the marketplace, buying insurance, are there for less than six months. another 30% are there 2009 six and 18 months. so when the president talks about grandfathering people into these plans, it actually isn't going to be for long. sooner or later these people will find themselves back in the marketplace looking for insurance, whether or not this grandfathering proposal actually goes forward. >> how do the generalized question i understand but how to insurance companies treat potential customers who come in looking for a policy saying they only need it for six months? do they gouge them?

>> no, i don't think they say that. they get a policy thinking they may not even know how long they will need it for. they're out of work. they lost their job. they go get a policy, six months later, they get a job. they're covered by their employer, something else happens, they can sell it and move on. insurance rates are pretty heavily regulated in terms of what the insurance companies can do. let's lock at this last chart and remind ourselves what is supposed to happen under the o'fordable care act t. key part is we will reduce the number of uninsured by 25 million. it was supposed to be 30 million. a lot of states opted out of the affordable care act. you will hopefully see this big decline. many will go into the exchanges, this 24 million people who will go there. the people, this individual group marketplace we have been talking about should shrink. people should be coming out of the marketplace and using the exchanges. then, of course, some of the addition of people coverage will

come through medicaid. the point is you will have heavy use of the exchanges, fewer people on their own and you will have fewer uninsured if all this works. so we shouldn't lows sight of the objective of the affordable caring a. >> i agree, having said that, it has been so stymied by glitches and misconceptions. just looking at the charts that give a lot of perspective to what it's supposed to do, does it look like a good model to you? what do you think of it? >> what i'm trying to do is get past the glitches with the website. yes, it's an enormous skrou up. the question is will it work? it all comes down i think we said on this show before to whether the young and the healthy, people leak our friend sam stein will sign up for this insurance. >> that's the bottom palestine. >> the fact in massachusetts, they did it. they ended up with 98.5% in that state on insurance to be fair.

they started with more who are on ens. i think what a lot of people are worried about right now. i think it's a real worry. is that with so much attention on the website and obama care and does it work and doesn't it work? it just looks like a big mess. if you are young and healthy, are you going to troy to work your way through this thicket or pay your $95 or not pay it and mover on? that's the big question. >> we're very zraktd distracted, the young generation. >> i am, too. in massachusetts when it first ran, it ran through several glitches as the aca is now with one critical difference. in massachusetts, there wasn't an opposing political party trying to destroy it. >> and kill the message. >> and throw up a smokescreen that people throw their hands up. if way this was constructed, it could work. it could be an enormous benefit. >> if they sign up. a couple move news stories to get to.

first of all, republican congressman trey raible will be in court -- radel, the freshman bought cocaine from a dealer previously arrested. the dealer told officials one of his clients was a congressman an set up a sting. later that day, federal authorities reportedly confronted the congressman at his home. radel acknowledged he suffered from alcoholism that led him to make what he calls an extremely irresponsible choice. in a statement, he says this, as the father of a young son and a husband to a loving wife, i need to get help so i can be a better man for both of them. he says he is seeking treatment and counseling. and then this, virginia state senator and former candidate for conversation cray deeds is recovering this morning after police say he son stap stabbed him. it is believed the law maker's

24 yeermd son gus stabbed his father multiple times in the head and upper body at the home yesterday morning. according to police the father managed to stagger out of the house. he was spotted and picked up by a cousin and later medevac'ed to a hospital. state senator deeds has been upgraded to fair condition at this hour. according to richmond "time's" dispatch, 13 hours before this incident, gus deesd the son, was released from a mental facility after being evaluated under a custody order. it allowed deed's son to be held for four hours to be department under temporary detention. but according to paper, he was released because there wasn't an open psychiatric bed in the area. that story is so representative of the lack of mental health care in this country and -- >> sure does.

>> and potentially practical reasons, just not having enough room, leading to disaster. we'll all be following that story coming up on "morning joe," governor scott walker of wisconsin will be here on the set. also, the editor-in-chief of busby, ben smith will talk to new york police commissioner or potential former new york city commissioner bill bratton and jeff he sachs, up next, the political playbook. first, bill kierans with a check on the forecast. >> mika, an utter to me was winter. >> that's how we all feel, bill. make it stop. >> it's not going to happen any time soovenl cold through thanksgiving in many areas. the northeast this morning much colder than this time yesterday. the wind chill values are down in the 'teens. wind chill in d.c., 33, not quite as bad, new england much colder and there is more cold on the air. this is a well advertised arctic

outbreak. right now in fairbanks, alaska, it is minus 28 degrees. no cold temperatures spread across canada. >> that purple and the white is the really cold stuff. by the time we get to friday, it invades minnesota and wisconsin. by the time we get to saturday, it's in the great lakes, into the ohio valley. into the east coast by sunday. you get the picture. appreciate the 40s in minneapolis, chicago and most and mid-atlantic today. because this upcoming weekend will be much, much colder. at least the airports will be okay today. a nice sunrise coming at reagan national airport. are you watching "morning joe.". .

. >> time to look at the morning papers. usa today suggests sudden cardiac arrests among men may have been preventible. more than half of middle aged men had symptoms a month before the attack him some of the signs include chest pain, shortness of breath, dizziness and heart palpitations. >> the minneapolis star tribune, a few study shows children around the world are not as fit as their parents were at their age. research from the university of south australia says it takes children 90 seconds longer to run a mile. >> 90. >> than it did 30 years ago a. full minute-and-a-half. overall, heart fitness declined 9% for kids between the ages of 9 and 17.

>> that's terrible. new york daily news, a trend is emerging in cities across the country. it's known as the knockout game. the object is to target a random unsuspecting passerby and knock them unconscious with pun punch to their head. >> from behind. that's nice, jose. >> videos have been circulating showing attacks in new york city, washington, d.c. and st. louis. >> that's horrifying. look at the new york daily news, the watch used to determine jfk's time of death up for auction at christies. if 18 qarat watch is expected to sell for as much as $150,000. >> that's creepy. >> yeah. you know. come on. >> meanwhile, in the toronto "star" one show embattled toronto rob ford's tv show has

been cancelled. >> what did he do? >> he got to get a tv show, he has to give it time to breathe. >> coordination featured ford and his councilman brother addressing alcoholism and crack smoking. they say the show ratings are okay, the economics of producing more shows didn't work. >> it looked like a camera. >> in addition, yesterday about half of ford's office defected to the office of the deputy mayor who has been handed most of mayor ford's formal doubts. >> what is he doing? >> what do you mean rob and a lurch? >> he's not going anywhere. >> okay. that's not going to end well. kansas city star water park in kansas city will soon be home to the tallest and fastest water slide in the world. >> we got to go there. >> i like heights. i like water sides, i know. but i want to have it just to

us. >> yes. warm water, too. >> verrukt, jen forinsane. it opens next may. estimates say it will be more than 17 stories tall and will clock speeds of over 65 miles per hour. i love it! >> i just lost my interest in this. >> i want to do that. riders will climb 264 steps to reach the top and will take the plunge on a four person raft. i want to do that. that would be fun. >> guilt trip. that's the name of a place in kansas city, schlitterbahn. >> a back up for the royals. with us now the chief white house politico mike allen. he has a look at the playbook. >> we have new evidence, the impact, the affordable care act on several senate races as the americans for prosperity, a

group backed by the coke brothers goes after several vulnerable democrats, which ones are they looking at? >> willie, we are hearing that democrats are very, very worried in these senate races. they spent $18 million. until now they have been targeting of course senator mary landrieu in louisiana and senator kay hagen in north carolina. these ads are what they call anti--political ads. they are very simple, stark. a woman speaking against a white backdrop saying that the problem is not politics. the problem is not a website. the problem is people and the phrase that we'll be hearing again and again obama care isn't working. also in this new spate of ads going up today. the one that targets senator mary landrieu has that clip that

we will hear the president saying so many times, if you want to keep your plan, you can, period. >> what's the strategy then if you are a red state senator? how do you hand him the next year or so without completely running away from the president or is that what you do? >> no, womanly, what we have seen here on the show is mary landrieu talking a lot about how to fix the site and democrats are convinced the site part of it will be fixed. what they are worried about is what the other shoe may be. what the reaction may be as more and more people find they can't keep tear doctors and other problems with the plan, itself. but democrats are hopeful that as we get past the website problem that people will start to experience the benefits of it. >> that people who don't have insurance now will see they are able to get it. >> these prosperity ads make that point, they say it's about a website that doesn't work,

it's about a plan that is flawed. politico mike allen. thanks, mike. >> have a great day. >> coming up, it's not every day we have a highlight from the mac conference, how about a tuesday night? a big fella "morning joe" sports is next. . on the need to fix our broken immigration system, there are signs both political parties in washington get it: washington is lagging behind the country on this... ...this issue has been around far too long... and yet, we wait. reforming our immigration system would dramatically reduce our nation's debt... grow the economy by 5.4% ... and take bold steps to secure our borders. on this, both parties say they agree: democrats... we are very very strongly in favor

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. >> welcome back to "morning joe." time for sports. >> stop looking. >> mika is reading twitter again. >> mover allegations against richie incognito, they say he and one other play mocked a staff member, made jokes ability his wife. on monday the doll fens requested a delay for encogny to's -- incognito's grievance while they investigate. more bad news from that fan that fell from wilson stadium on sunday. rob hawkens is not only banned from returning to the system, now he is looking for a new job. his employer let him go after he was caught on live television

sliding down a bannister on the upper deck. he fell about 30 feet landing on two other fans. he could face criminal charges for the stunt. he is physically okay now without a job. >> it was a costly ticket. >> oh my gosh, it really was. you get college football on tuesday night. the macconference, if you love sports, not much else is on. i'm watching the game. kent state, a fake punt a d lineman 6'4," 260 pound takes the direct snap on the big punt hurdles the defender. look at that athleticism on the big fella. wow. >> a 6190. >> that's incredible. kent state goes on to win the game. what a play. i leak real stuff. baseball negotiations between the yankees and all star 2nd baseman are at an impachlts kenault is asking for a deal

with more than $300 million. >> right. >> the yankees say if that asking price does not come down, he will not be back in pin stripes. it is not clear what teams will be able to meet that price. his agent. a name jay zee did meet with the mets on tuesday. kenault is out of his minds. >> the a-team. >> no one will give him. >> they used to be good for it. >> not happening. >> i think the kenault people know they won't get that. they're trying to keep it high to get somewhere in the middle. a ten-84 deal. >> you won't get ten. you will get five for 25. >> which isn't a bad neighborhood. >> randy levine came out explicitly. the mets, whoever. >> how about $300. >> that's a whole other problem. lend say vaughan planning to compete in jeopardy after she crashed in colorado.

remember, she tore up her know not long ago, back on the mountain, vaughan taken off on a sled, still recovering from surgery, repair, a severe know injury. she sustained in february at the world championships. though, she was on track to compete in sochi. right now we're not sure if she reinjured the same know or how bad the injury may be. let hope she is ready to go. >> she came back really fast. we don't foe if it's the same know she hurt. she definitely wants to be in the olympics. let's face it, it would be a proceed in the olympics to have her. >> huge, huge. hope she is okay. up next, the must read opinion pages, plus, fom brokaw reports on the often overlooked victim of lee harvey osz r oswald killed while tracking down the presidential assassin, don't go away. we will be right back with more "morning joe." . [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >> it wasn't just the kennedy family torn apart that day in dallas nearly 50 years ago. a veteran police officer was also killed by the presidential assassin. nbc's tom brokaw reports on how that tragedy united two widows in grief. >> as a policeman's wife, she knew her husband's job came with a certain amount of danger, but nothing could have prepared her what happened one friday 50 years ago. >> it started out as an ordinary day. we got the kids off to school. he went to work. >> reporter: he came home for lunch and rushed back out on the

streets looking for the suspect who shot the president. >> they told him the description of the person they were looking for. >> reporter: at the corner of 10th and patton a few miles from where marie was waiting with him. officer tippin crossed fire with lee harvey oswald. >> he was driving car number 10. i think he's dead. >> oswald fired four shots, three to the body, one to the head. tippet never had a chance. >> your life crashed around you at that point? >> everything. i just couldn't believe it. it was just unreal. >> we begin this natural period of mourning the president and yet in a very personal way, you have to deal with your own grief. was that hard? >> oh, was it ever, yes. we have grown so hard together that he was the other part of me that was just missing.

in fact, with three children, without him it seemed almost impossible. >> reporter: as the media storm began to swirl around her, marie tippet found her thoughts going to the one person who could truly understand her ordeal, jacqueline kennedy. >> i can sympathize with her. >> reporter: the two young widows had their husbands laid to rest on the same day and somehow in the midst of her grief the first lady found time to write a condolence letter to marie phipppet. this never before seen letter was as direct as expected. dear mrs. tippet, what can i say to you? my husband's death is responsible for you losing your husband. wasn't one life enough to take on that day? i lit a flame for jack at arlington that will burn forever. i consider it burns for your husband, too. and so will everyone whoever sees it with my unexpressible

sympathy, jacqueline kennedy. >> that's the thing that you always want is somebody who just can understand how you feel and she did. she recognized that i was suffering, too. and isn't that wonderful, that we had a first lady that was so caring for everyone. >> that was tom brokaw reporting. and here with us now, the director of the earth institute at columbia university the author of the book "to move the world," jfk's quest for peace dr. jeffrey sachs. why don't we stay on kennedy and this book. tom brokaw writes in the "wall street journal" this, i think the american university speech applies to the concept of this as well. imagine the tweets during the cuban missile crisis. watching the recent government shutdown debate, i tried to imagine how kennedy's bay of

pigs disaster might have played out in today's benghazi climate. how long would it be before a national chorus of contradiction arose, demanding his impeachment? can you imagine the wall to wall, channel tsunami during the 12 days of the cuban missile crisis in october of 1992. that's when kennedy had arguably his finest hour as commander-in-chief, cooling off catastrophic war fever with imaginative diplomacy t. town square has been wired and expanded. the question remains, whether more voices remain for a healthier political climate. president kennedy with his wit and stylish manner played to the washington press establish. and it paid off, but not always, he was often unhappy as most presidents are, with coverage of his administration, calling columnists at home or reporters into the oval office to complain. in today's climate, he'd get little else done and dr. sachs,

you think of all the different messages of his address as the american university speech. you think of it today as well how it would be received in the environment that tom brokaw so beautifully lays out. >> somehow, kennedy had to find his way through with the height of the cold war to making peace with the soviet union and it's true that it was long odds. one of the things that you really learn from that, though, is that kennedy didn't just choose the battles that he knew he could win, he took the hard road and he was determined to find a way through, but he took big risks. the book that i write is about signing the nuclear test band treaty in 1963 and there were huge foes of this, when kennedy went down that path, he didn't know how he was going to get it through the senate. indeed, this was very much on his mind just as any treaty would be today, how do you get anything through the u.s.

congress. in the end, he carried the day 91-19. he had a resounding victory. but it took all the skills and leadership from vision, eloquence, determination kwournlg and very prakt kam cal politics to get it done. >> although those skills of leadership, sam stein, i wonder if any of them can navigate the environment today in washington. >> i mean, it's a good question. i happen to side against tom brokaw on this. i think more voices are better for the process. but that's beside the point. i actually have a question, it's a different point. they wrote a book on kennedy basically with the question of what would happen had he lived. we are wondering from your understanding from your research, how you have gone about looking at his time as president, what do you think would be the biggest difference had he not been assassinated? >> i think the big question that

everybody wonders about is whether he would have also had america slide into the vietnam war disaster, which lasted for a decade. my reading of kennedy's ideas, his determination, his views, just in the fall of 1963 that he would never have let it happen. he was determined to avoid a land war in asia. he had the political skills. the truth is that he started in a kind of bumbling way, of course, with the bay of picks right at the beginning, but by 1963, he really was achieving greatness and i think he would have gone on to great deeds and one of those would have been avoiding the vietnam war. >> you talk about the great opposition to the test band treaty in '63. he also faced great opposition in '62 during the cuban missile crisis within his own cabinet. people said we got to go in, strike these sites and effectively go to war with the soviet union. what was he up against?

how ahone was he in saying, no, we will negotiate. we will get diplomacy, we will get through this without dropping bombs? >> i think the main thing you learn is that the president cannot simply take an advantage of the advice that they get. the advice is all over the place and for the first year, kennedy listened to the military and listened to the cia. he allowed himself to be pulled into the bay of pigs. even tow we had doubts about it. by the cuban missile crisis, he was determined to find his way through to seek his own council, of course, to listen. but he had general curtis lemay, for example, almost insubordinate, virtually you get a saying, what you are doing is direct appease. to the president's face, kennedy was shocked by it. kennedy took a deep breath, held his ground, avoided disaster and then learned from that episode what he needed to know for 1963,

which was how do i find a way through this political morass, how do i reach out to the counterparts in the soviet union? how do we pull back from the abyss. it was leadership that did it. >> dr. jeffrey sachs. the book again is "to move the world." thank you very, very much. still ahead, republican governor scott walker joins us here in the studio. on tomorrow's show, we will talk to education secretary arnie duncan "morning joe" will be right back. .

is

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rolling stone." there is a website you can go to and scroll through game shows, history experts, singing the song all in sync. >> all right. [ music playing ] ♪ once upon a time ♪ dressed so fine in your prime ♪ didn't you ♪ people call say beware, you to the they were all kidding you ♪ you used to laugh about everybody that was hanging out. now you don't talk so loud ♪ now you don't seem too proud ♪ about having to be scroungeing

your next meal. >> the price is right if there. the sports center. trying to touch all the bases. the video is timed with the release of bob dylan's 47 disc box set. 47 disc. that's a hell of a career. >> does that work? >> i think you have to take in the whole thing have a little sampleing of it. coming up next, busby editor ben smith joins us along with the reverend al sharpton, keep it on "morning joe." [ music playing ] ♪ how does it feel? ♪ how does it feel ♪ irds chirping.

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. >> one of the many financeny things about these interviews he likes to shift the focus on his weight, as if that's his main problem. he has a kent way of doing that. >> i am training every day, in a gym every day, i'm dealing with a trainer working out. >> if i'm sitting here five months from now what will i be locking at? >> you will see somebody 30 pounds lighter. if they don't see a difference i'll eat my word. if you don't see a difference in the next four, five months, i have to eat my word. if you don't see a rob ford a few pound lighter, in five months, i'll eat my organs. if i'm not down 3040 pounds i will eat my word. >> he will eat his words and

many, many other things, too. >> oh my goodness, welcome back to "morning joe." steve ratner is still with us along with sam stein in washington and busby.com, ben smith, good to have you back an host of msnbc's action network reverend al sharpton, how are you doing? looking very, very dapper this morning. >> thank you, as always. >> as always. all right. let start in washington. later today, the president will meet with state insurance commissioners to address their concerns over the health care shift. several groups say the white house proposal which would allow insurers continue selling all the plans that do not meet the men mum requirements of the health care law would be impractical. meanwhile, officials say up to 40% of healthcare.gov is still being developed, but the site can now handle up to 25,000 users of any given time.

even though, president obama said he quote did not have enough awareness of the issues surrounding the website, white house officials say he was briefed on the possible online failures earlier this year. yesterday, the president spoke about the ongoing partisan fight over the affordable care act. >> we are going to have to a fix the website so everybody feels confident about that. we are going to have to obviously remark and rebrand and that will be challenging in this political environment i think we probably underestimated the complexities of building out a website that needed to work the way it should. what was already going to be har was operating in a very difficult political environment and we should have anticipated that that would create a rockier rollout than if democrats and republicans were invested in success. one of the problems we've had is

one side of capitol hill is invested in failure. >> it's not just the political environment, though, at this point, it's the media coverage of the negative stories. a pretty basic problem at this point. the question is can it be fixed? steve ratner had the reports on how it could be fixed, end up working at least. >> that is to get the young, healthy people to sign up. how possible is that? >> well, i think the challenge is going to be to make that happen. i mean, that's the only thing that the program will work at this point and i think. i think it's in the interest of those young people. it has to be sold to them that you are not infallable. are you not superman and you do need health insurance. now, is it a difficult sell, yes? is it necessary, yes. i think that with all of the negative publicity, i was

watching steven say, he's right, it is something that you are going to have to overcome. something i am sure the president did not want to have to overcome. this is the hand we are dealt. we have to deal with. let's not forget, though, this is the first plan we've gotten through congress in a half a century on health care. so do i want to challenge that the results are what they are? i certainly would rather not have the challenge, but if i've got to do this in order to have health care for millions of people, let's take the challenge. >> are you a young person? >> i'm on the margin. >> okay. so what's the gut, the concern we have. >> my employer is insuring. i think that sort of the question is, you know, obama i think overestimated early on his capacity to lead the whole nation. the people he needs to lead into a functioning website are his base. i mean, young people in

particular the people that hate him most are on government programs for the elderly. the people he really nodes to make decisions on based on what he said is relaunch it, remarket it. >> yes. >> that will be his quest, can he personally break through to the young people that voted for him an supported him. >> sam stein. >> one thing that's interesting is that prior to the exchange launching, health care insurers, private health care insurers were planning a multi-100 billion ad campaign to advertising exchange. er that as much invested as the president in making sure the young, healthy people sign up. they don't want to have these diluted pools of consumers, they've held off, what's the point? why would you direct someone to a website that's totally dysfunctional. now it's interesting to see, do these health insurers end up spending money to get them to the exchanges? do they have enough time? we're talking about weeks now.

hhs has its own ad budget. private insurers will spend a lot of money eventually i think in trying to make sure people sign up for health care. >> so remarketing, relaunching. trying to get i think a generation as distracted as any to kind of look back at something that may come off as kind of a mess as we were talking about. look at this, and meanwhile you get pelted with things like this. head lean in today's new york times, perks ease way in health lan for lawmakers. the time for feels, the language in the bill gives law makers and their aids added benefits, including support sessions, special blue cross blue shield websites for members of congress and gold plans, that their constituents at home don't have access to, law makers are forced to enroll for health care coverage through the new insurance exchanges as a part of the affordable carable the headlines keep coming and at this point maybe this wouldn't get the play, now it's red meat

for the other side. >> well, this is certainly a health care story, but it also is a broader story of how congress always takes care of itself. congress likes to play by a set of rules they don't impose on the rest of america. as you may know, there are a bunch of congress to get congress to play by the same rules. congress does not want to play by the same rules. >> just going back to one thing sam stein said, he is completely right. this is going to be a messy, difficult role. it's a little like a new car comes out, it has defects, the company fixes them, then are people still going to boy that car or do you have to spend a lot of time convincing people. >> the name of that model. >> it may not all happen this year, it may take a couple years before we get over it. >> i think there is an opportunity taking a negative, making it a positive. you are talking about young people and if you get people that can appeal those young people, i'd get some of these hollywood types, these rock stars. they would say they tried to take this from us. almost as a defiance because you

didn't have the rollout before by some of these insurers. can you turn this around. when i talked to my daughters and you talk to them about doing something that the system didn't want you to do, you have a different kind of appeal. i would try to go the other route rather than do what is good for you. do what they didn't want you to have. there is all kind of ways to market to young people that people sam and my age may not feel is appealing. >> we will re-visit this. we want to get to some other news. that i are so busy testing. they'll be like, oh, what's this? it's new. >> that's right. >> all right. new developments this morning in the shop and frisk lawsuits against some of new york city's biggest retailers. now, conflicting stories from the department store barney's and the nypd after two customers claimed they were racially profiled. he sued barney's foraccusing him of fraud after he bought a $349

belt. kayla philips threatened to sue after she was stopped boying a celine hand bag in february. an audit clears the retailer of racial profiling placing blame squarely on the shoulders of the nypd. the officers allegedly watched the transactions take place from the security room in the stored and pursued the customers based on suspicions of credit card fraud. but a police spokesperson offered a different account. quote, in both instances, nypd officers were conducted unrelated investigation and took action after conferring with barney's employees. the commission commissioners said officers only visit when they are investigating crimes. in both cases, they were pursuing other case. it's conhave lewd, reverend al, what do you make of this in terms of the overall look at tactics in new york city under scrutiny? >> well, i think, clearly when

this came out, we got involved, we did work with another group t. problem had been the charge of racial profiling and stop and frisk so now we have shop an frisk. what is interesting about the report. there is meeting of the retailers, ceos and some of us that are leading in this on friday t. interesting thing are you now saying that nypd has total control of your store? there is no policy, no understanding? >> exactly. >> you turn the civil liberties of the customers over to nypd? >> are you saying they profile? you can't leave it like this? how did nypd know the exact amount and what was going on in a transaction if, in fact, they never talked to anyone in the store. as you pointed out, this young lady makes a purchase, how did

they stop away from the purchase? notice she had a different card. know the amount. never asked the person behind the both, you never had a flag, no red flag. there was no reason to stop, so why did you stop her? what was the basis of your relationship? >> i can't think of any. >> so somebody here is telling than the whole truth so help them god. >> we will follow that. it's interesting. there doesn't seem to be even after the story has been out for quite some time any reason why these two people were stopped. >> any reason at all, being that there was no red flag, no suspicion here, something is wrong with the car so what was the basis of the stop? if you say nypd had the store,

if they don't, we'll find that why is this pattern only people of color? they have not annered that at all. >> now the u.s. draw down of afghanistan was supposed to be completed in 2014 so the u.s. is now prepared to maintain military outposts in that country for years to come. according to documents, american troops could stay until 2024 while the u.s. pays to support hundreds of thousands of afghan security powers, richard engel is live in the afghan capital. give us a sense of what more of these documents say. >> these documents describe a deal being worked out, negotiate between the afghan government and the united states government

that would leave a residual force in this country the administration the white house has long said there might be some sort of residual force after the end of combat operations supposed to end if 2014. until you see this document and you read it and we posted it online yesterday. i believe it's on the website you realize hoy extensive this can be agreements that would have a specific law for contractors. the commitment of the united states paying for the afghan security forces without any time limit on it. and if klauss that would allow

americans to stay here in this country not just until 2024 but beyond, actually after 2024 this agreement would be automatically renewable unless one of the two parties, the united states or the afghan government submitted in writing a request to can sell it. after that submission was submitted, it would fake two years to can sell the agreement. it shows there was a very large and concerted effort to keep a sophisticated relationship going beyond the 2014. >> beyond the date. rimpblgsd i know there is a delay. i will ask you one brief question. is there anything in the documents that would indicate we will ever leave? >> ever leave? >> yeah. >> no, not really. there are some indications that say when afghanistan is perfectly ready and secure, we will strive to maintain sovereignty and we will respect the sovereignty of afghanistan. but the thrust of this document

is to stay. the reading between the lines. this is a document to stay behind to partner with the government and to keep some sort of basis which would actually be afghan bases that the united states would be allowed to stay on free. >> thank you very much. the answer to my question is never at this point. >> i think, though, the obama administration has continued after 9-11 this global military posturing, you had raised in somalia and libya against groups that didn't do this on 9-11 under the fact that they were covered by military force in afghanistan. so i think the obama administration is certainly operating on this notion they are fighting terror war and conducting raids all over the place indefinitely. >> i mean such an example,

steve, of how you can't, when you get in there is no good way out to these types of situations and, i mean, i can't imagine if you look at the way the documents layout, how we would leave. a scenario where afghanistan is ever ready? >> the afghans threw us out. >> sure, it's a different set of circumstances, we have still in korea 60 years later, afghan is special. it's a hard place a lot of people tried t democratize it and failed. do you walk away from the investment, all these lives knowing that afghanistan almost surely collapsed, will you try toy see it through in a limited way? i don't envy the president having decide that. >> it's a rough one. i have been for let's get out right away. but i hasteen to add this is an unsigned document that has been

revealed. so we don't know if this is a suggestion or real policy and we'll have to wait and see. i hope we are not talking about staying there. >> reverend al, you will be back at the table when we speak with commissioner bill bratton later in the hour. up next, republican governor scott walker, plenty of people are eyeing him for 2016. first, he has a re-election race at home to deal with. we will ask him about all of that in a few minute. are you watching "morning joe" in a minute. we'll be right back.

. >> in a discussion among republicans, you hear it all the time the next presidential nominee for 2016 has to be a governor, somebody like a chris christie or a scott walker or a john casic, do you agree with

that? >> no. >> okay. next question governor scott walker is out with a story, a nation's challenge, the book looks great. i'm a little nervous. you told me you were in it. >> the infamous crank call that was one of my most embarrassing moments. it's a great learning moment. afterwards, i came clear. >> learning moments, trust literally no one in the world of politics. >> it had kind of been fooling myself back then. i talk about that in the book. it remind me. in fact i read a devotion later that day very telling. >> let's go there, actually. we talk about you when we go, we're on joe's book tour.

we talk about different people in the public eye who could be potential 2016 contenders or whatever else and we talk about how you had your moment in the sun early on as governor. you were so quick to talk about the mistakes you made and how you have evolved along the way, i asked you if you had regrets, expected to hear someone say, i don't, i run, whatever. you said, oh, i should have listened more. >> yeah. i said you were the first one to ask that. remember joe actually jumped at it. you said, that's a set up, you don't need to answer this next question. >> i said, no, that itself a great question. i was so eager to fix things, i didn't explain, i said one of the reasons i wrote this box people will be disappointed, if you didn't learn what i did in sports or anything like that, i tell the story of what and how more importantly what we did in wisconsin, which i think a lot of people will be surprised to learn about.

>> mike barnacle. >> you say that's what i wrote this book? did you write this book? >> i put your name right on the cover. >> the mechanics. >> every sunday night we would get together on skype, talk about the wonder of technology from 6:00 to 9:30. mark and i would skype for six or seven months. i tell the story. i could go back to being the governor throughout the woke. >> very good. being the governor, mika brought up the initial phases of the governorship and the mistakes that you have copped to in this book. apparently, i haven't read the book yet. do you worry if you have ambitions other than being governor of wisconsin of being branded as a union busting, you know, nickel and.coming guy who tried to take rights from union ploy i don't see that already have been brokered? >> no, i mean, in the end, what we did is not unlike the president oversees on the federal level. one of the things i put out in this book, federal ploy i don't see don't have collective bargaining. they pay a higher percentage for

premiums than we ask for today. when the president went early on in our party. apparently he isn't paying attention, what they have is more generous or rigorous from the general situation. for us, i think a lot of people around the country may think that what they'll learn as well is ha we've improved the economy. cut taxes a billion-and-a-half dollars. how this year will be our third 84 in a row property taxes have gone down on a typical home. i think they will learn about education reform and entitlement reform. one of the biggest things is transitioning people from govern naens to true incidents, there is a whole lot more to wisconsin. >> steve. >> let's turn if we could to the o'fardable care act. you have been an outspoken krivenlth you have not set up an exchange or expanded medicaid under obama care. the republicans are correct in a lot of their criticisms. i have not yet heard a really

specific alternative with how they will deal with 50 million uninsured people, how they will create better option for individuals, all you hear is a law frankly of generalities, do you' specifics on what a better plan would be? >> i think there are options, obviously, i'm not in the federal government. i have looked at the heritage foundation, the american enterprise institutes. it's about taking the tax incentives right now, they're more focused on employer-based plans an offering that same incentive for everybody out there. whether it's a savings account orrick maing that incentive, correcting some of the challenges that are legitimate about guaranteed issue, pre-existing conditions, all those sorts of things can be resolved without mandating an exchange at the state or the federal level. >> sam stein. >> governor, i remember after the 2012 election, you came out

forcefully and said the republican party needed to recognize certain realities. you talked about how gay marriage is a dead issue. you endorse something like a pathway to citizenship for people who were here illegally or undocumented people. do you feel like the republican party has taken the necessary steps since the 2012 election to modernize itself and if not how would you advise the republican party in congress to take those steps? >> well, sure. with one correction, though, on immigration i talked about fixing the legal immigration system, not going beyond that, that aside, i think the larger issue is the governors. 30 states in america have 30 gochls i talk about. that for us, most of us are probably more conservative across the board tan mitt romney was. the difference is we focus on economic and fiscal issues. >> that really makes the difference. >> so you did an interview, you described what the candidate for 2016 should be. it sure seems like you were

talking. i mean, it seems like you were talking about scott walker. >> i said current or former governor? >> you sa you the clip about paul up there. i said paul is 21 of those rare examples of the courage and leadership. >> like are you talking about scott walker. >> my ideal candidate would not be that somebody else couldn't do it. i think governors are the ones that get things done. historically, before bruk barak the last time we elected a member of congress was 1960. that was my point, by and large americans want to see people with chief executive experience out there. >> while your chief of staff glares at me, would you be the ideal candidate? >> i think any of the 30 republican governors would be the ideal candidate. >> come on, barnacle. >> i love to be president. i will say it rye here live, that's a whole different matter out there. >> naming the chief executive of your state, someone entrusted withed a machinestering the your state. why would you not accept the medicare money from the funds?

why would you not take that to help insure people currently uninsured. >> you look at the keiser family found ails, the walk post did an editorial the other day of the coverage gap, we were the only one that didn't take medicare. every state is different. in our case, we did something different from the states that did take or didn't take. we were able to put everybody on poverty is covered. everybody above poverty goes into the free market. we don't expose the taxpayers. for anybody that would say why don't take it? my answer is simple, i don't want the burden that will come due when the federal government renigs on the promise. >> you really think the federal government would not send you the check they're promising to send you? >> i don't know, $664 million, it's too fat, more in this year's budget almost 40% of that is because money the federal government has pulled back on

from previous promises made to the state. it's already happening. it's happening not just to wisconsin but across america. they're pulling back all right. anybody that thinks the federal government, 16 almost 17. >> they're pulling back in part because your colleagues on capitol hill are forcing things like sequester, which leaves them with less money. >> these are related to the affordable care act not the sequester. >> the intoxilyzer "unintimidated." as you can see, your staff is intimidated. >> the pictures for tweets. >> i know, they're great, governor scott walker. thank you very much. very nice to see you. coming up on auto pilot the new research that says pilots are too dependent on technology and are losing basic flying skills. the details next on "morning joe." avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive"

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. >> there are fresh concerns this morning about the safety in the skies. nbc's tom costello has more on what's being called autonation

addiction. >> reporter: it's the end of a long cross country or international flight. but in today's highly automated cockpits, how much flying do the crews actually do? captain karen con has spent years as a pilot airliner. she worries about younger ones relying too heavy on auto pilot. >> it is there to help you. it is not the actual carrier of the airplane. you need to use it as an ad jungts. it's like another crew member helping you. >> reporter: an outside page of experts raise the red flag that pilots sometimes rely too much on automation system. they lack sufficient or in-depth knowledge and skills. basic piloting errors are thought to have contributed to the crash of an airplane over the atlantic in 2009. of a commuter plane crash in buffalo that same year. perhaps the crash in san francisco this summer.

>> what you must mane tain your bake airmanship. >> reporter: as afest, cap taken tom casey, once kept track of how rarely he had to touch the controls on an auto pilot flight, new york to london. from takeoff to touchdown, just seven times. >> that is being in command of a system of wonderful computers that do a great job but it isn't flying. >> reporter: real flying, says casey, was exemplified by captain sulen berger when he landed a plane without engines on the hudson river. a new report calls for manual flying in the cockpit and simulators. >> obviously an inevitable problem as automation becomes so main stream. you've said along the way it's sort of amazing the rules have you in the back of the plane don't apply to the front of the plane, the pilots sometimes are doing other things and. >> although not as much, look, i have been flying 20 years, when i think back to what the

technology was when we started, when we were flying by hand, no gpss, no ipads, no nothing, now you are or can be a sophisticated computer operateoout of the once tom merngsd the crash was on this point. one of the instrument landing services were out of service, the pilot had to into i the plane, a lot of these young pilot, especially, do not have a lot of flying experience. >> that said, of course, we don't have many crashes. let's not pan ec and stop crying. let's recognize this is an issue. >> there is a need to maintain the bake skills. up next, he led the police departments in new york, los angeles and boston. we'll ask bill bratton if he is interested in getting another go now that there is a new mayor. "morning joe" will be right back. .

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♪ by the end of december, we'll be delivering ♪ ♪ through 12 blizzards blowing ♪ 8 front yards blinding ♪ 6 snowballs flying ♪ 5 packages addressed by toddlers ♪ ♪ that's a q ♪ 4 lightning bolts ♪ 3 creepy gnomes ♪ 2 angry geese ♪ and a giant blow-up snowman ♪ that kind of freaks me out [ beep ] [ female announcer ] no one delivers the holidays like the u.s. postal service. priority mail flat rate is more reliable than ever. and with improved tracking up to 11 scans, you can even watch us get it there. ♪

>> here with us now msnbc former criminal for new york, los angeles and boston police departments bill bratton good to have you back on. nice to see you. do you want to come back to new york any time soon? >> you never new yorker it metro detroit happen. >> obviously with the new mayor, we will talk about that and your potential here. i want to get your background on what you think has happened with the issue of stop and frisk. obviously a court ruleing deemed it to be having been used incorrectly. now, that's changed.

what do you think about the policy overall and how it was used in new york? do have you any concerns? >> first off, the question of frisk is basic tool policeing in america. maybe called something in and of the city. >> exactly. >> the supreme court had a decision on it. i think the issue in new york is very specifically focused on the idea that there was too much of it an certainly in minority communities, especially the african-american community there was concern and express there is too much of the amount of crime occurring in the city. and it may have been borne out with the most recent report that indicates that stop, question, frisk is a result of the change in department policy or strengthenning of a policy has dropped dramatically where all crime continues to go out. >> reverend sharpton, if you can comment on it. is the new york daily news data

checked during the first six months of the 84 last 84 reveal 74, this year, reveals 74% of the city's 567 shooting victims were blark an adshl 21.5% were hispanic. less than 3% of shooting victims were white according to report what do we do about the continuing disparity, certainly new york city, it's a national thing the poor, mirs are the ones getting killed. >> well, it is an issue for society it isn't just an issue, police play a critical role i have been involved in my whole police contrary in turning the police from thelightening rod to being the cutting edge resolving it. one of the things is reverend al visited out there several times, not only did crime go down

dramatically, gay crime an pom side, we also at the same time improve race relations between the department that had been at war with the black community for over 50 years, now their approval ratings in that same community run consistently 70, 80%. so you can turn that around. you can be moved the black face and brown face as the face of crime and make changes. >> no, i think what he is saying is important. first of all, these communities that are the ones that have the disproportionate amount of victims are mobilizing and able to work with police. it's a whole series of things in chicago on a weekly basis to try to deal with it. you don't target the people who are victims and criminalize them. i think that's the problem. i think what commissioner bratton said is very important. as you see several stop and frisk in new york, crime has not gone up. that's not the answer.

as we try to find the answer, we need to work together, not criminalize us, a whole segment of the population because they're black. >> i think it's really the focus on knowing who is committing the crime to the best of your ability and focusing on that group. the advantage we had in l.a. was there was an identified gain population, 40,000 were documented as active gang members. similar injunction allow police to focus on that population. l.a. does 25% more stops than new york but you don't get the complaint because the focus is on a portion of the population that is actively engaged in crime. >> i want to talk about chicago in a second. first, there is a lot of speculation of who might be the next commissioner of the u.s. police department. here's what mayor elect depalassio's office says, every name out there is nothing more than speculation. the transition is focused on identifying a commissioner with the experience and leadership to effectively run the nypd, keep

new yorkers safe, who is committed to bringing police and community back together. might that be you? >> it might be. >> it might be. really, would you like that job? would you want that job again? >> i had the opportunity to meet with mayor elect deblasio to talk about the position of my perspective and i'm in a position as a result of that conversation, having looked at it quite seriously as you might expect. if asked that i would be very interested in coming back into that position once again. >> what would be the differences in your perspective that you just phrased it between today, policeing today in new york city as opposed to policeing in new york city when you were commissioner. >> i was a commissioner 20 years ago when the city was in an incredibly different place. the levels of violence were so much higher than they are today. i'm also more seasoned as a result of my seven years running the lapd i think successfully, having a perspective of how

another major city deals with its issues. i am currently consulting in a number of cities. detroit, baltimore, a few cities working with the chiefs of police there. so i have a much more significant base of experiences than i had even in 1994. >> the intelligence component has to be night and day between your first time as commissioner and today given what happened in september 11th, 2001. >> where we had gone to is into an era of predictive policeing in l.a. in 2007. we are with that information and intelligence. you can almost predict certain crimes will occur at certain times in german geographic information. with that information, get your cops in there early, work with the community early and stop that crime from occurring. that's what's changed. it's so exciting. >> before we go, reverend, you have spent time in chicago in focusing on stopping kroim

there. you think it could be a model for the nation. >> i think what happened is everyone knows about the shootings in chicago the record numbers. what they don't though is many groups are doing prostive things we are trying to hein the light on. so i've actually got an apartment on the west side where a lot of the shootings are. i spend one day a week there working with the mensters, the activists an those who are trying to work along with the city and use that as a national model saying chicago is building back the rest of the nation can't and it's gone very well. i'm highlighting a lot of gun violence this friday night here on msnbc. we have a special years of gun violence, through new orleans, miami and detroit. but i think at best if you have community and police working together, something that even under a mayor that i did thought have the best of relations with, mr. bratton said before, mr. bratton did try and talk to some of us despoit his mayor at that

point didn't want that. i think that you have your best for your citizenry if you have community and police working together. >> reverend al, bill bratton, thank you very much for coming on the show. reverend al thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we will be watching you at 6:00 p.m. on politics in addition. still ahead, she set the stage literally for some of the world's best comics. caroline hirsch explains how her comedy clubs can launch kroers. are you watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. . is

i have an answering machine and i know no one ever calls me now. now there is a light. loneliness. i will not play. you have no friends! >> that was a very young man performing at caroline's comedy hour, owner of caroline's on broadway. one of new york city's most famous comedy clubs.

how are you in. >> i'm good. >> who do you have there at times? do you have susie aston? >> susie started out as an opening act for richard, my eighth avenue club about 25 years ago. >> was she an instant hit? >> not instant. >> there she is. you have video. i wasn't planning on that. we have the cast of curb your enthusiasm. >> if you are anyone in the comedy business, you have to go to caroline's first. >> you had so many great comedians early on in their careers, but they were selling out 300 seats. they did have this following early on. >> any anecdotes of these famous people who bombed early on? anything interesting? >> yeah, early on.

look at that clip from 1990. he's grown over the years. i remember people seeing louie and saying i don't get what he's doing. now you can't keep people away. >> that's how you grow. with the live audience. you learn what you can't learn anywhere else. >> it's taking the risk. >> it's hard work. stand up for heroes. >> that was on november 6th. >> me how it went. >> we moved from this was manage we started seven years ago. we started with an idea about how to raise funds for the injured soldiers coming back. we set our goals to do one of the benefits in a 1400 seater at town hall and it's grown to 5500

seats at madison square garden. >> fantastic. >> we raised over $5 million. >> unbelievable. >> in the realm of theater, i can't think of a scarier prospect than trying to make people laugh as comedian after comedian does. how does it work at your club each and every night? do you book them and say hey, i think i'm funny? how does it work? >> we have a new talent night where we see the artists and watch them grow, but it's people with their own routine at this point and are well-known in the demograph demographic. it's not really newcomers. it's people that are used to do doing this. >> jeff has an act and he's

refining it and people like him come and stand up and do it? >> absolutely. he comes into the club and damon wayans is coming to the club. he has been around for a long time, but decided they all love to do stand up whether or not they have a show. they still love stand up. >> it's a joe that you can't get anywhere else. i learned that talking to susie. caroline hirsch, thank you so much. i want to go. up next, obama care was sold as equal opportunity coverage except if you remember congress, the special privileges written into the law. next on "morning joe." what if a small company became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪

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>> it's wednesday. time to wake up. back with us on set, we have mike barnacle, steve ratner and in washington, sam stein. the drawdown of u.s. troops from afghanistan was supposed to be completed in 2014, but the u.s. is ready to maintain outposts in that country for years to come. according to the document, american troops could stay until 2024. while the u.s. pays to support

hundreds of thousands of forces. here's richard angle with more on what the agreement would entail. >> troops training and advising afghan forces and hunting al qaeda. movement off base would be severely restricted. officials want 1015,000 troops to stay for a decade at least. they talk of 7,000 to 8,000. u.s. troops here mostly in training. the u.s. air force working with afghan air men. >> they are on their face, nervous about taking their first few steps, but i think they can do it. >> most don't want the men to leave. >> we have strong support from the termination in the community. especially families. >> why not just leave? the afghan government would likely collapse and it would become a haven for terrorists

after so many years, iraq stands as a warning. there was no agreement when the u.s. left and the civil war has come back with a vengeance. an afghan agreement might repeat that. not ending the war, just changing it. >> as part of any agreement the government wants president obama writing a letter admitting to military mistakes and only then would hamid karzai drop his staunch opposition to u.s.-led counter terrorism raids on villages and homes. sam stein, if the government collapsed, there is no leaving. 2024 is not even realistic. >> this is a real bind for the administration and that has been talked about on the show ad nauseam almost. do you pull out entirely and how long is too long and how many forces is too little? 7,000 strikes me as insufficient

if there were a collapse. at the same time there is very little to no political extension to even this. they are trying to thread a needle here figuring out what they can do to stop emerging threats. how to satisfy the politics to satisfy a lengthy deploy. ment. >> october 2001 moving into afghanistan, moving into 2024, a quarter of a century almost. vietnam and the length of that war, in 1975, ten years. the length of the war is something for future president to think about. there is no such thing as an in and out war. >> most specifically the american military and families would continue redeployments to afghanistan. sam mentioned the effect it would have on the united states for troops in there, but the

real thing is the effect that it would have on the afghans. if we withdraw, the government will collapse within a year or two. it depends on what forces and who will be left in afghanistan. what is the admission? 7,000 to 8,000 for troops on the ground. is karzai going for the united states soldiers that would remain through 2024. is he going to allow them to do defensive and offensive force protection that are critical or go out at night and kill bad guys? >> it's a broader issue. nobody in the last 150 years has succeeded in turning it into a stable place. you can't wish for democracy

more than people wish for themselves. >> they will address concerns over the administration's health care roll out. several groups say the white house's proposal to allow insurers to continue selling older plans that do not meet the requirements would be impractical and difficult to implement. up to 40% of healthcare.gov is still being developed. the site can now handle up to 25,000 users at any given time. even though president obama said he "did not have enough awareness on the issues surrounding the website," white house officials said she was briefed on the possible online failures earlier this year. yesterday the president spoke about the ongoing partisan fight over the affordable care act. >> we are going to have to a, fix the website so everybody feels confident about that.

we are going to have to obviously remarket and rebrand. that will be challenging in this political environment. we probably under estimated the complexities of building out a website that needed to work the way it should. what was going to be hard was operating within a difficult political environment. we should have anticipated that that would create a rockier roll out that democrats and republicans were invested. one of the problems we had is one side of capitol hill is invested in failure. >> this headline in today's "new york times." perks ease way in health plans for lawmakers. language in the bill gives lawmakers and aides added benefits. special blue cross websites only for members of congress and gold plans that their constituents

don't have access to. lawmakers are forced to enroll through the new insurance exchanges as part of the affordable care act. that kind of hurts right now. that's the real story. >> the double standard. >> it's red meat. >> we will talk a lot about the politics of this. steve comes with numbers. with data and he's got the charts. looking first at who will pay more under the affordable care act. >> because there is so much talk to show what's what. what will be affected. let's look at who will pay more and who may not. to put it into perspective. this breaks down all americans into five groups. you start with those who are unaffected. the 80%. people who get health insurance from their employer as most of us here do or they are on medicare or medicaid and life goes on.

15% who are uninsured and they will be affected on hopefully in a positive way. we will come back to them. then we come down to this roughly 5%. everything we have been talking about in terms of getting approximate policies canceled and falling into the 5% bucket. we are talking about 16 million people. half of them should be able to get a similar plan without paying more for them. another quarter of that total will get subsidiesubsidies. they are low enough to qualify for the obama care subsidies. the people who are going to get hurt are 1.3% of americans who don't have subsidies and have plans canceled. 1.3% does not sound like a lot. when you do the math it's as many as 4 million people. that's why you are hearing so much about it. it's only 1.3% of the

population. >> four million people who will remain uninsured. >> people have the bare bones plans now. people who are young and healthy and new plans may cost more. i'm not trying to minimize this. but they will probably pay more. they will pay more. >> the $4 million, is it the prepr preponderance who said they feel great and they are not going to get insurance. >> you and i of a certain age might pay less when we go into the affordable care act. the young and healthy are likely to pay more. if they don't pay more, they have to pay this mandate penalty fine and tax so hopefully it will get them into it. >> it's the people who are above

400% of the poverty level. if you are at 401%, you do not get a tax subsidy. that can be financially damaging to you. there is a marriage penalty if you combine incomes. it's over 400%. you get no subsidy. it's that quick cutoff that is earning the administration. they are middle class or lower middle class who have trouble affording health insurance as it is. they are forced to buy more expensive plans. that's the problem that they face. let's look at the plans. everybody talks about being grandfathered and with the idea that they are going to stay in the plan for a long time. most people will go into the market place and don't stay there long with the original plan. there people who are between jobs or changing jobs or take this for another while and get

another job. half the people in the market place, people buying insurance are there for less than six months. another 30% there for to 18 months. when he talks about grandfathering people into the plans, they are going to do something else. sooner or later, they will find themselves back into the market place looking for insurance and whether or not this grandfathering proposal goes forward. >> this is a generalized question. how do insurance companies treat potential customer who is come in looking for a policy saying i only need it for six months. do they gauge them? >> i don't think they say that. they get a policy not knowing how long they will need it for. they lot of their job. six months later they get a job or something else happens and they cancel and move on. i don't think they go in and insurance rates are reveille regulated in terms of what they

can do. let's look at the last chart and remind ourselves what is supposed to happen under the affordable care act. we are going to reduce the number of uninsured by 25 million people. it was supposed to be $30 million. a lot of states opted out of the affordable care act. many go into the exchanges. the 24 million people who will go there. the individual group market place we have been talking about should shrink and people should be coming out of that and using the exchanges. of course some of the addition of people's coverage will come through medicaid. you are going to have heavy use of exchanges and people trying to get something and have fewer uninsured if all this works. we shouldn't lose sight of the long-term objective. >> i agree with that and having said that, it has been so

stymied by glitches and misconceptions. it gives a lot of perspective and does it look like a good model? what do you think of it? >> i'm trying to get past the glitches with the website and it's an enormous screw up. the question is, will it work? it all comes down to whether the young and the healthy, people like sam stein will sign up for insurance. >> that's the bottom line. >> in massachusetts they get it. they ended up with 98.5% and the people in that state on insurance to be fair. they started with more. a lot of people are worried about this and i think it's a real worry. with so much attention on the website and obama care and does it work or doesn't work? it looks like a big mess. if you are young and healthy, are you trying to pay your way

through or pay your $95 or not and move on. >> we are very distracted, the young. i'm serious. >> i'm serious too. >> massachusetts when it began, it ran through several glitches as the aca is now. with one critical difference. there was an important political party to try to destroy it. >> and throw up the smoke screen to the point that people throw up their hands and say i can't deal with this. >> a violent new trend. young attackers assaulting innocent people on the street. we will tell you where it's happening. the latest chapter in the saga of rob ford. his reality show's debut episode. also the show's finale. >> of course. >> here's bill with a look at

the forecast. >> good morning to you. >> we have a couple hundred thousand people without power. in michigan and indiana, we have rape in missouri and all of this is heading in that direction. we had good weather up until now and now it's fading away. as far as the forecast, no huge storms. wet weather last night. as far as the east, it's a chaly start to the morning, especially in areas like new england. nothing compared to the cold air this weekend. notice the cold blast in montana. temperatures dropped about 50 degrees compared to yesterday and that's just the start of the cold trend. this morning once again, bundle the kids up in new england and the great lakes. in the 20 degree range from boston to washington, d.c. this is just a little hint of things to come as the next cold

blast will be impressive in western canada. it's coming our way this weekend. we will 4r50e6 yleave you with f seattle. highs today only about 43 degrees. ♪ as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy. start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan.

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>> time to look at the morning

papers. sudden cardiac arrest among men may have been preventable. more than half of middle aged men had symptoms a month before the attack and some of the signs were chest pape, shortness of breath, dizziness and heart palpitations. >> the minneapolis star tribune shows children around the world are not as fit as their parents were at their age. ittic tit takes children 90 seconds longer to run a mile since 1975 for kids between the ages of 9 and 17. >> that's terrible. >> "new york daily news," a disturbing trend among teens is emerging known as the knockout game. the object is to target a random unsuspecting passerby and knock them unconscious with one punch

to the head. >> that's nice. >> videos have been circulating showing attacks in new york city, washington, d.c. and st. louis. >> that's horrifying. look at the "new york daily news." the watch used to be used to determine jfk's time of death. it was worn by the doctor who signed jfk's death certificate in 1963. the watch is expected to sell forasmuch as $150,000. >> that's creepy. >> yeah. come on. >> new on the toronto star after one show. rob ford's show has been canceled. >> no! you have to give it time. ford nation made its debut monday night and featured he and his councilman with alcoholism

and crack smoking. they are producing more shows, but it didn't work long-term. in addition, yesterday about half of ford's office defected to the office of the deputy mayor who has been handed most of mayor ford's duties. >> is he in a lurch? >> seriously. >> ease not going anywhere. >> it's not going to end well. >> kansas city will be home to the tallest and fastest water slide in the world. >> we have to go there. >> i like hides and water slides. i know. i don't like-i want to have it just to us. german for insane. the exact specks will not be released, but the slight will be more than 17 stories tall and clock speeds of over 75 miles

per hour. i love it. >> i lot of my interest. riders climb 264 steps to reach the top and take the plunge on a 4%. i want to do that. that would be fun. >> field trip. >> what's the name of the place in kansas city? >> back up to first base. >> can we go to the water park? >> mike allen. he has a look at the playbook. good morning. >> good morning. new evidence according to politico. the impact the affordable care act will have on senate races. the koch brothers go after several vulnerable democrats. which are they looking at? >> we are hearing that democrats are very, very worried in the senate races. americans for prosperity spent $18 million over five months

including a new one going out today. they have been targeting mary landrieu in louisiana and kay hagen. they're adding alaska. these ads are fascinating because they are called anti-political ads. they are simple and stark with a woman speaking against a white backdrop saying that the problem is not politics. the problem is not a website. the problem is people. the phrase we will be hearing is obama care is not working. also in this new spade of ads going up has the clip for the president saying if you want to keep your plan, you can, period. >> if you are a red state democrat, how do you handle the next year or so without running away from the president or is that what you do?

are what we have seen here is how to fix the site. democrats are convinced that the site part will be fixed. what they are worried about is what the other shoe may be. what the reaction may be as more and more people find that they can't keep their doctors. democrats are hopeful that has we get past the website problem, people start to experience the benefits and people who don't have insurance are able to get it. >> mike allen, thanks. mitt romney took plenty of heat for saying corporations are people. now the idea of human stocks is taking hold on wall street. new york magazine explains how investors are pulling up cash to recent graduates in exchange for a cut of future earnings. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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>> we have to make sure that the promises we made are promises we can keep. there ways of doing that.

one is to raise taxes on people. corporations are people, my friend. of course they are. everything corporations earn goes to people. where do you think it goes. >> in your pocket! >> that was mid-romney in one of the more infamous moments. the writer for new york magazine. the latest piece with the script on governor romney by suggesting people are becoming corporations. brian sullivan is also with us. so kevin, you write in part this. the record high stock markets that avoided anything and find new way to sell stock and throw themselves at the market's mercy. regulators can sign off as an example of innovation on

finance. the jobs act could open them up to unaccredited investors and we could wind up with a society where vast number of people are treated like stocks with monetary value and they bundle the streams of a bunch of 22-year-olds in exotic financial instruments. good god. what are you saying? >> it sounds a little distopian. i started looking into this topic after reading about the aryan foster and running back who was planning to keem up with a company to sell shares of themselves on the stock market. he would get $10 million up front and in exchange, he would give 20% to the investors in the stock. i thought wow, that's a really innovative and crazy sounding idea. i didn't know that these are available for normal people who

don't play in the nfl. they have human capital tracks and a number of people are not offering them. they have up front cash payment and need $20,000 to start a business, they can get that money from wealthy investors in exchange for a share of the future income. 5% of the income for the next ten years in exchange for that lump sum. >> wow. is that a good deal? >> it's not a bad idea. we think of loans at fixed rates. you pay 3% or 5%. the amount you pay will fluctuate on how much you make. you are not paying much and it's a good deal.

if you take one and you start the next facebook, then you end up paying a lot more. >> we have kick starters for companies and ideas. this is a hard sell for this to go across the board. you can can't regulate it. it seems like a sucker investment. >> we had the bonds about 20 years ago that predated this. a butty of mine invested and they are supposed to give him a percentage for years and years. he made it big. the race car driver decided we are making it so big, maybe i don't need to give you a percentage of my money. i loved kevin's story. there is two things i think about this. there is a lot of anger for banks and we don't want to get tied up with a bank loan and i wonder how much interaction is there between the creditor and

the debit. if i loan shaq my money, am i going to e-mail him every day, how is your career going? do i get my money? >> the influence over what you do. you want to do this? as your benefactor, i urge you to go this one. i'm not the rich uncle. i'm the rich task master. >> the component of -- i don't want to use the commitment there that is not comforting. >> some compared that and i don't think it's that grave, but by the same token, if you buy stock, you get to vote. if you invest in a person, they are structured in a way that you don't have the investors not taking big enough stakes to be able to 234r7bs that.

it's not like i'm buying 50% of you and saying you are not allowed to wit your job and go to art school. >> kevin, one of the companies you highlight is called pave. i wasrusing it this morning. they want to use capital outside of the system and it appears to be look to pay off the other debt. >> when you start replacing fixed income debt like student loans when it's tied to income, you get into a situation that you are punishing success. the is up start and pay, how they figure out how much money you need. they run you through an algo rhythm. you are an nba student and you will make more over the course

of the next ten years than someone in a band. therefore the terms of your deal will be different. i can see this being inequitable and dangerous for people. >> after the collapse, nearly every day by people in the financial coverage business. where would the regulators be in a situation like this. >> regulators are having these discussions with the companies. there has been accusations that this is illegal, what happens if the other company comes in and allows people to invest say 50% of a person's equity. do they get influence over their decisions and what happens in a bankruptcy situation and if someone decides i don't want to participate in this anymore.

a lot of them provide an alternative and the student death that americans have. >> new york mag.com. thank you so much. absolutely fascinating. visit afternoon mojo for more of our investigation with kevin on the human corporations. vnbc's brian sullivan, thank you as well. america's most demanding and outspoken givers. jay is here with the phi langt ropy issue.

>> an amazing act of kindness honoring his last wish giving an

amazing tip. generous giving is the theme of the latest issue of town and country magazine. joins us now with the issue, that's one of them. you have the list of the best givers as well. any surprises? >> a lot of surprises. this is an issue we wanted to do as an annual and this is the first one we are doing. we looked at the idea of putting a list of 50 together that would be startling in many ways. also explain the current state we are in with philanthropy. that's the traditionalist who gives them when they walk by somebody on the street and drop a coin in a cup or like you saw in the pizza video, the kind of acts of kindness. >> that went viral. >> yes, it did and raised $50,000 which is a great thing. on the other side, you had this

venture capital which is much more hard nosed business. i want intense interviews and that's a great thing too. with the new pope that we have, a guy who and that's an amazing place. that's a return to giving at a smaller level. >> you break down the categories with crusaders and strategists on the cover. i thought it was hollywood star. they are stars. it's the grandchildren. >> the interesting thing about this is this is something that connects to the government shut down. this is one of the great

tragedies of the shut down. they were supposed to be under water for 31 days at this moment. they couldn't get all of their permissions done. now it is delayed to the beginning of next year, but the idea of putting them on the cover is they inherited this interest in the ocean and the health of the ocean and the grandson is going to live under water for 31 days. passing his grandfather to 30 days in 1963, about 50 years ago. >> to highlight what? >> he will be conducting research while he is down there and they will live in a pod that has been down underneath it and used for research for the last 15 or 20 years and conducting dives specifically for the coral reef in that area off the coast. this is about the health of the

reefs and to bring attention to that and to have a number of interesting people come down from queen latifah if she can work up her courage to richard branson and others. get a lot of attention on the subject. >> how has philanthropy changed over the last five to ten years. it seems more specific. you have rich people giving away money and also have george clooney who is very involved in a specific thing. no credit and no publicity? has it changed? >> it is part of effort life. corporations have philanthropy. anyone whose got money. a jung generation who might be personified by bush who seem to be born to do it. this was something they were going to do like eating and breathing. they were going to care about

it. my own children, my son is 10, the awareness of the environment and the way things are made and labor practices and people who are under privilege and education. all those things seem to be part of a generation that is knit together. >> my kids donated to unicef. >> there is an example that you bring. i think an 8 or 9-year-old girl who got very moved by seeing something on and started a foundation herself. they sell lemonade that is bottled. a big portion of it goes to the cause. >> i wanted to point out at the bottom, new england state ares 45 to 50 in terms of philanthropy. the third for this religion because there is less religion in new england?

in utah it's with the mormon church, but new england is at the bottom. part the number is utah and the last five are the new england states. these ag gnostic states that don't go to church. we have a blaor like bloomberg who is about to go into a different phase of his career. i'm grateful he is not going to disappear and give away a major portion of his fortune and going to concentrate on many other things. from obesity to education to the arts which is a great thing. he supported the arts in new york and that's important for a city and a country like us. you have a lot of different figures in this world and the rising wealth in silicon valley which is creating a new approach

as well. >> the new issue of town and country is out now. thank you so much. great issue as always. new polls showing trouble for president obama. the surprising changes in some categories you may not expect. "morning joe" continues after the break. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired.

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>> more troubles for president obama. 37% approve the in the's job in office, a nine-point drop from last month. his disapproval rating is 57%, an all time high for the poll. the dissatisfaction for the white house is spread out across various demographics. the president under water among independent voters. more men disapprove than approve of the job the president is doing. the problems with health care play a clear role. 31% of the affordable care act. 61% rating. 61% is the highest the poll has. >> we spent too much time in this country taking polls.

we take a poll every 15 seconds. we need to ask about the roll out of health care, it's like we are hearing snap chat. we have to wait a longer period of time for things to settle down. >> you can't deny the trends. at healthcare.gov or obama care works, it will probably work after he is gone. the numbers may not change for a while. >> up next, what if anything did we learn today? we'll be right back. bl thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp.

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president obama is getting all the late night jokes now. >> better him than me. i really don't miss the spotlight. it's hard for some to believe, but eight years in the spotlight is enough. >> i must say you look much more relaxed. >> no kidding. >> it's true. >> duh. >> talking about what we learned today. >> i learned at this time tomorrow we will have the winners of the national book awards. what did you learn? >> i learned from steve ratner's charts, don't give up on health care. we ought to have it. some has to get done. >> obviously and the situation

before we had it. we were paying for it as well. >> if we are going to use everyone as a corporation, would it be mika, joe, barnacle, willie? i don't know. long-term? you are basically a terrible person. you can leave now. >> what about that shot? are you kidding me? >> it's time for "morning joe." >> now it's time for t"the dail rundown" with chuck todd. >> no end in sight. a report obtained by nbc news reveals a plan to keep troops in afghanistan for at least years and perhaps